92-31. Shergul Arshad

lSPEAKERS

Shergul Arshad, Will Bachman

Will Bachman  00:01

Hello, and welcome to the 92 report conversations with members of the Harvard and Radcliffe class of 1992. I’m your host will Bachman and I’m here today with your Google Arshad sugu. Welcome to the show.

Shergul Arshad  00:15

Thanks for having me. Well,

Will Bachman  00:18

so you’re gonna tell me about your journey since graduation from Harvard?

Shergul Arshad  00:24

Oh, wow, how much time do we have?

Will Bachman  00:27

We have an hour.

Shergul Arshad  00:30

No, I won’t bore my classmates too much. First off, hello to everybody. Sorry, I missed reunion this year. I am living in London these days. We’ll get to that part. I guess sort of, I’d say my journey has been punctuated by having three amazing children and an amazing wife. But career wise has been very, very diverse and interesting, which I think is a product of kind of being around the diversity at Harvard, the different classes I took, I always hated even choosing a major because I like to kind of dabbling in lots of different things. So the quick synopsis career wise, is I started off about a pinnacle of life. I was the Italian national teams translator with the 94 World Cup. It’s all been downhill since then, because I got the practice as a team and as a lifeline soccer enthusiast and player. That was That was exciting. But in a 360 degree kind of way. I’ve come back to soccer. More recently, in between I was at ad agencies. I rode the early consumer internet wave, I went off and got an MBA from the University of Michigan. So I got the support and still get the support the Michigan Wolverines, which is kind of fun, because I’ve been a 28 year New England Patriots season ticket holder, and I was at Michigan when Brady was there. And I like to take you know about point oh 1% credit to bring him back to New England. So I’m pretty happy that he came up to the Patriots. But back to my career, I’d say. i After after business school, I worked at Amazon, eBay, I was at a couple of startups that were sold to larger entities including one that sold to eBay one it sold to Time Inc, called style feeder. And then I’d say like the last 10 years has really been where I was hoping my passion for consumer internet and digital media would lead to and that’s been a career in sports. I started off for three and a half years as the head of digital for AS Roma, one of the top 20 released fan bases and soccer team, even though obviously based in Rome, Italy, I was in Boston with the new ownership group. I had a small minority stake with the team. It was a great ride, it just got a little tiring going back and forth to Rome. Believe it or not, even though I’m originally from Florence, Italy. But from then I launched a daily fantasy soccer site called Mondo goal. I launched it with one of my high school friends. And we had a series of classes on it to folks even involved. So Eric Newhouse and, and Don Cornwell were two of the guys that come to mind that were involved as advisors and investors. Mondego had a pay rise. And then unfortunately, when DraftKings and FanDuel, hit kind of a bit of a collusion mark. The business pivoted and we had to sell the business. But I then ended up joining DraftKings. I spent three years working in the sports betting realm. And then most recently, the last three and a half years I’ve been at a exciting soccer startup called stack bomb. We provide the data and analytics to now over 200 clubs around the world. Most of Major League Soccer and most of the Premier League a bunch of big exciting clubs that use our data to scout and find players. So it’s been, you know, like I said, a 360 degree journey from from being a translator of the national team to supplying the Italian national teams data to help us win the Euros. So that’s probably a quick professional spin around. I’m actually in the process of starting a new gig, but we’ll have to wait for social media announcements and all that before I can go too far. I will if you want I can touch on some of the personal life stuff too because I think that’s always kind of cool too.

Will Bachman  05:00

Sure, let’s hear that.

Shergul Arshad  05:02

Yeah, so I got married in 1997 to Alison, we had a 15 year marriage. Two amazing children, Luca and Matteo crazy, but Luca is now a senior at the University of St. Andrews. And Matteo is a sophomore at Wash U in St. Louis. So that’s been fun watching the boys grow up. In 2013, I got divorced, and I remarried in 2016. To Sophie Dixon. Sophie is English, which is why I’m currently in London. We’ll get to that. But Sophie has met a bunch of classmates at a couple different reunions and a couple of different events including our wedding. And we have a four year old daughter almost four, Sylvie, and Sylvie is amazing bundle of energy and joy and keeps me young. As, as our most of us were, you know, I’m 52 years old now. So I have to stay in relatively good shape, but just to catch up with her.

Will Bachman  06:17

Wonderful. Tell me about so much to explore there, you’ve done so many things. Tell me about the world of soccer data, I am just sort of probably the marginal soccer fan, right? I’m the kind who comes in and like watches some of the World Cup games, but then drops out for the four years. So what are some of the data that you would be monitoring? I mean, there’s so few kind of goals? Is it like time with the ball? Or how many steals or something? What are the types of data that you would track in soccer, there’s like fewer things in obvious that are baseball, right? You’d be

Shergul Arshad  06:59

surprised. We cover about 3600 events on any game, any single game. So 3600 events, this includes everything. The we call a carrier, just a bald guy progressing up the pitch with the ball, obviously, not just a pass, but was that with your left foot, right foot, the distance that traveled was it on the ground, in the air, all the defensive activities, but also off ball measurements such as pressure, which was a big, big differentiator for stats bomb, because, you know, a lot of teams were evaluating data without pressure, and obviously, a shot taken, or dribble take. And if there’s no one pressing us, it’s pretty easy. So, so pressure information was super important. And you know, the reason these 3600 data points all matter, obviously, accuracy of the data is important to us, because you can synthesize a lot of it to really characterize certain players and certain coaches, and we have match analysts that use our data, we have the biggest customers have been the scouting departments. So, you know, your Liverpool, you know, your Manchester City, these are two, two big examples. And you want to make signings, and then some of these signings, you know, can be 7080 $100 million. And so the margin for error is massive, much more so than in US sports, where it’s all now salary, caps and trades, and you have to fit under a cap, but there isn’t a risk. Until you come into maybe long term contracts in the US sports. In European soccer, you could be buying a 20 year old Brazilian who’s never played at the top levels, maybe for 50 million. Wow. And unless you’ve done a lot of a lot of research on the data, obviously, you know, anyone’s highlights can look pretty good. All right. So

Will Bachman  09:04

tell me a bit more about this is the data itself? Is it yes, a whole army of people watching the game and coding each second? Or do you have an AI thing that just sucks? it out?

Shergul Arshad  09:17

Like? It’s a great question. So the folks who have focused on solely one or the other are either too slow or too inaccurate. So status bombs kind of had the perfect balance of having people essentially supervised an AI system, computer vision. And it’s all off a video. So imagine an army of 600 people sitting in Cairo, Egypt, which is where the stats bomb data collection is taking place. You’ve got loads of low cost, but also high intellect and high internet connectivity. So they’re collecting data off of Google Cover 110 different leagues. So kick picture, there’s about 40 games per team in 110 different leagues. So there’s constantly games is the point. And so the this, this group of people is collecting the data. And it’s been fun, I joined, I was the seventh employee, there was only five beta customers, and many ways stats bomb was just starting its revenue journey. And as I invested in, I’m on to a new adventure, we leave with a company with, you know, a couple 100 customers just exciting.

Will Bachman  10:38

That’s amazing. So have the AI supervised by people and tell me a bit about the the pressure analysis like I can imagine how a person or even a computer can identify who’s carrying the ball and what foot they kick it with, and so forth? How do you analyze the slightly more? Well, maybe it’s not subjective, but just like the defensive side, like, like, where, like how much what, what’s on a scale of one to 100? Or something? How much pressure is on a person? And how good is the defense about pressuring someone and making errors or getting him off their stride? How do you measure that piece?

Shergul Arshad  11:19

Yeah, so we’ll do, it’s all distance to the person with the ball. So if a defender is outside of five yards away, that’s not pressure. As soon as you kind of enter a almost draw a circle around the player of five yards, five meters, right, as a player as a defensive player enters, that’s that circle, and is now essentially causing the player with the ball to do something at this point, the player can’t just stand there the ball be taken away, they have to either dribble or pass. So we’ll measure when the pressure pressure starts and how long the duration of the pressure is, and then what’s the action that results from the pressure. And ideally, there’s a pressure regain, if you’re the defender, and you’ve pressed the ball, and, you know, the guy kind of messes around for a little too long, and you end up with a ball. That’s the pressure regain. So, you know, coaches, I think, I think a bunch of the teams that have won recently, have employed a high press strategy. And so having knowing, for example, defenders in more random leagues, around the world who, who can not just handle pressure, but potentially apply pressure up the pitch has been, you know, where data Scouting is valuable. The other big part of this is, you know, Moneyball as an analogy, actually, Billy Beane’s a big part of the soccer world these days, too. You know, Soccer is the, by far the biggest sport in the world, but it’s sort of nothing comes close as far as global popularity and also money. So the money that’s flowed into soccer has, because there was a lack of data that it created opportunities at the margin for people like a Billy Beane and people who are on the sharper side of analytics and have come from us sports. So so it’s been kind of an interesting journey, because now, of course, even if you’re a smaller team, and you can discover players from Peru, or Costa Rica, or the second division in Korea and Indonesia, and you can bring them over. And because you’ve used data scouting, a you don’t have to spend, you know, huge costs and scouts traveling around the world, Scouts can only see a fraction of the games played. So having essentially data coverage across all these games, has been a good weapon for any sized club.

Will Bachman  13:51

Now in in Moneyball been by Michael Lewis really popularized Billy Beane, and that analytics approach, as you mentioned, and in that book, it talks about some of the different statistics that used to be undervalued, but they showed that it was actually really valuable, had similar things happened in soccer, where maybe historically the, you know, the score would be highly valued. But some of the defensive players perhaps undervalued and there have been specific kind of metrics or statistics or behaviors that our teams are realizing now are actually more valuable, like applying pressure under certain way. And is that because reevaluation or change of statistics of the game at all?

Shergul Arshad  14:33

Yeah, the single biggest metric that’s emerged is expected goal x g. So an expected goal essentially, is the percentage when the shots taken the percent likelihood of it going in, and that x g is impacted by distance, angle, number of defensive players and attackers that potentially were in the way of the shot. How close They are to the ball when the ball has been shot the position of the goalkeeper. So all of these, you know, the height of the ball when it struck like it does skim off the top of a guy’s head or miss the ball bouncing or is it on the ground, like all these things can be condensed into one little variable called x g. And so you might see a game where the result ends up being one nothing to, you know, to, to to the wrong team. When the x g numbers show, you know, that maybe it actually was was was a landslide the other way and then shots aren’t necessarily a good qualifier, either, because you could have a team that takes, you know, let’s say 15 shots, all wild shots from outside, whereas the other team might have taken five chances, really in close, you know, potentially have just kind of world class goalkeeping or hit the woodwork a few times. Those are those are really big variables that impact the game flow. And that’s probably one of the things that has been, you know, has come out of the world of data and analytics and football.

Will Bachman  16:10

Let’s talk about sports betting a bit. Your time as Mondo goal and DraftKings. What do people like someone like yourself? who’s worked inside one of the sports betting companies? What do you know about how the world works and how sports betting works that that you can share with with the rest of us on the outside?

Shergul Arshad  16:33

Well, first of all, it’s probably it dates back to probably the cavemen like, who can throw a rock farther, right? I mean, this is ingrained in human culture. And whether in for a long time in America, we’re almost raised in a in a culture to believe it was somewhat illegal, but yet it was the largest black market as far as vetting going on. The only reason we were raised that way is because Las Vegas kind of made it very much proprietary that you could only bet on sports when you’re in Vegas, and everything else is illegal. So so when I, you know, I was actually born and raised in Italy, large betting culture, even go with my dad to do betting and betting shops. I mean, this was, you know, this is this is as ingrained, as, you know, having a beer, and most most places. So I think that first and foremost is a huge difference in attitudes towards sports betting that are starting to emerge. You know, we like to think of America as the most advanced culture, but in sports betting, it’s like, light years behind. So it’s been kind of fun to see how some of the smarter companies and smarter businesses are just essentially learning from what’s already happened in Europe, whereas others are trying to apply, you know, a whole new mentality that isn’t necessarily learning from mistakes of the past. Let’s put it that way.

Will Bachman  18:04

How is your feeling about the following? You know, you know, kind of at one end of the spectrum, there’s that experience that you mentioned, of going with your dad to, you know, kind of a bonding experience betting on a game, it takes some effort, you have to go walk to the betting shop, in around the corner. Do you have any concerns that are, you know, how do you think people in the industry feel about, you know, making it, you know, if it if it gets to be too easy, and, you know, people can fall into addiction and so forth of it. And it becomes like this, you know, compulsive thing where it’s no longer, you know, father and son walking to the corner betting shop, but something people are, you know, feeling, you know, just kind of get this addictive, compulsive thing. How do you feel about it? How do people in the industry talk about that?

Shergul Arshad  18:54

I mean, to be honest with you, I think this is true for so many different things like don’t talk about the huge amount of McDonald’s addiction out there, right? The amount of people that have alcohol, I mean, almost anything I get you bring up if you do it to an excess, online shopping, there’s certainly people that are addicted to that, unfortunately. So So I think that that, actually sports betting has way more kind of governmental and institutional controls. Certainly, certainly more so than let’s say alcohol or pharmaceutical sales, the types of ways in which you have an online account, you can’t have it until you’ve pretty much given over all your documentation. Your as as an individual are highly regulated with the amounts you can spend and the amounts you can deposit. So you know, versus just about anything else. McDonald’s has an example. No one’s controlling how many burgers some fries and potential harm and hazard you create yourself there. And there’s loads of other industries, alcohol, etc. Actually, it’s kind of funny class in 92 time. I had a lot of fun discussions with Maura Healy. You know, along the way. Actually, before I was at DraftKings, I was a monitor go on. And she and I talked about it at Harvard Yale game. So you know, it’s interesting how, how many times the 92 folks have woven in and out of different things that I’ve done in the past.

Will Bachman  20:36

Tell me a story about some of the early days of the consumer internet, you are Amazon and eBay. Both extraordinary companies, Amazon, certainly this incredible business culture that Jeff Bezos has created any any stories to share to kind of shed some light on what it was like in the early days at either of those places?

Shergul Arshad  21:00

Yeah, a couple. First of all, you know, don’t everyone that told me that you absolutely need to go back and finish your second year of business school and not take the full time job off from Amazon. You guys blew it. And mainly my dad and others, it said, You need to graduate from business school. And you know, what I did not need to do is graduate from business school, I should have taken those options. I’d be you know, on a cruise doing this from my yacht, but that didn’t happen. It was amazing to see.

Will Bachman  21:31

So you follow the advice. You stayed in business school.

Shergul Arshad  21:35

I stayed in business. All right. I know I should have left but

Will Bachman  21:41

no one’s convinced your kids to drop out drop out now. Take the offer. Hey,

Shergul Arshad  21:45

look, it worked for Bill Gates and Zuckerberg. Sorry, sorry for the inadvertent plug against college. But my joke there hopefully doesn’t doesn’t hit the admissions office. But no, I think I think a couple of things were really fascinating. In the very beginning, what led to the dot, I was actually at Amazon wins. Let’s call it the.com bubble burst. And I was living it firsthand in a group that was called the Amazon commerce network, that essentially, Bezos had gotten to a point where he said, Look, we can’t do all all things from our own operation center for our own packaging fulfilling, but we want to be in many other verticals. So we created partnerships. Some of the folks like pets.com, or living.com, essentially, were companies that died right at the bubble, because the costs parameters of free shipping on furniture and pet food and, you know, companies were shipping really heavy items with a totally flawed business model didn’t have a dropship methodology installed yet. And so it in a very kind of interesting way. Amazon ended up having a pivot to, to, you know, help help the industry and become a fulfillment center for many other providers. There was a very interesting phenomenon at eBay, which was company went public and was going through such hyper growth that so many colleagues ended up working with, were hired, they told me off of a 15 minute phone call, no reference checks. No one ever met them in person, and it’s just a hiring frenzy. And yet, you know, years later, these people are holding fairly senior role. So I was actually surprised at the time, potentially, that eBay had almost let too many people in and not necessarily right, rightly qualified. And, you know, this was this was a big part of the early days of internet craze.

Will Bachman  24:03

So at and but Amazon has this very distinctive culture, right, in terms of at least the book working backward, I just read about Amazon and their hiring culture, you know, they really put this very, you know, Team interviews very structured, right. What, yeah, totally

Shergul Arshad  24:22

different. I agree. I agree. Amazon was very, very different. Amazon, you know, probably the culture from Bezos. It was. I’ll tell a quick anecdote. I was in business school my first year, everyone rushed off to go get their summer internships and I basically was holding out for a role at Amazon. I had a backup plan at a smaller startup that no one had heard of, but at the very again using kind of networking through alumni. I got I got the one kind of spot to go be an intern at Amazon, which was a great, great learning experience. But, but it just showed that they were very selective. They went through a careful diligence process and stint and then that that culture has only grown I think, nowadays, you know, they have one of the most rigorous interview interviewing processes in place. But, but no, I mean, at the time, it was two buildings in Seattle, and not much else, you know, a couple of couple of fulfillment centers. And it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s great to kind of look back on those days and, and obviously, with some regrets

Will Bachman  25:42

from from me, like when I spent five years in the Navy, and that experience shaped me and affected kind of just how I approach things, and my mental models and so forth. did. Did you get shaped at all, by your time at Amazon? Is there any kind of habits you have now, or just a ways you approach business decisions that are shaped by that culture?

Shergul Arshad  26:08

So I, you know, I was only there, I had that MBA internship period, I buy my next job, which was fair market, which we led to sales at eBay after my first two years there, and then I spent the next couple of years at eBay. Those are probably more, but I think, you know, I’m not quite sure when your navy experience was. But that was it depends on when these things happen in your life, I actually found my time and advertising agents to be very educational and learning about lots of different businesses. So that was good.

Will Bachman  26:49

Tell me about that. Your time in the ad world?

Shergul Arshad  26:53

Yeah, so you know, prior to going to the consumer business, I probably some of my closest groups of friends were formed in the, in the 90s, after college, I think, you know, you come into your first jobs, your your shared experiences, and your you start to play golf and meet other like minded people. But the ad agency, you’re working with loads of different types of businesses. And so, you know, at Harvard, you do a lot of classwork and classroom study, but very little kind of practical case study or application to the real world, working in an ad agency, when you’re able to essentially, touch 1020 different types of businesses. You know, that’s probably a great way to get real business and marketing knowledge and kind of gave me that probably that early thrill for working on lots of different businesses that you know, versus probably many other classmates, I’m probably, I don’t know, 1012 different jobs. And I like it like that’s, you know, that there’s I wouldn’t trade that for anything. I think having a variety of experiences has been great. And I think that that was shaped by those days at an ad agency.

Will Bachman  28:21

What’s what’s one of the favorite campaigns that you worked on there that’s that you still kind of remember and are proud of.

Shergul Arshad  28:32

Proud of what was the stuff we did for Stop and Shop supermarkets, believe it or not a New England supermarkets

Will Bachman  28:38

I grew up so that was their that was their local grocery, Stop and Shop.

Shergul Arshad  28:44

Yeah, loads of cool things there. Pirelli tires are really cool campaign with Carl Lewis was a Young and Rubicam in New York. Ah, I was at the agency when a lot of the Volkswagen work was done from Arnold advertising. But you know, I wasn’t on the creative side, I was more on the business side. So I can’t take claims of any having come up with any campaigns done the campaigns, I think, what it was, it kind of left me with a thirst of not wanting to be on the essentially, an agency is much like consulting, you can only bring an idea or bring a proposal to somebody who then has to make the decision. Since then, I’ve actually departed and only done decision maker roles. Like, like my head of digital role at AOL AS Roma, I launched our Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, all the different social channels launched an E commerce site for them. It was decisions decisions, kind of owning them owning the successes or, or potentially, you know, failures. And you know, I think I think that’s been In a practical way, versus being an agency that advises you on what to do for social media example.

Will Bachman  30:08

Tell me about a course or professor you had at Harvard, if any that still resonate with you that professional or not just something that has affected affected your thinking your affected your, your your life.

Shergul Arshad  30:25

Believe it or not, it’s a pretty good story. longtime family friend. My parents knew him well was Roger Fisher. Roger Fisher, you know, I’d known since I was a kid, he taught with with Professor URI course together called Getting to Yes, there’s a negotiations class, there was a book they’d written together. And the negotiations class, ironically, you know, super useful, I actually wrote how to broker negotiation between soccer hooligans. So, you know, obviously, case studies were much more around wars in the Middle East and stuff like that, but snow i I’ve, since then, I’ve been in largely business development or sales roles where you’re negotiating. And so it was a practical, early, early window into the world of business negotiations, I’d say. Another one is, you know, I was lucky to be in the class when I think Dershowitz, and Gould and Nozick were teaching, thinking about thinking, loads of pretty cool examples from those, those those those discussions. You know, I’d say that anything that helped shape my thinking around negotiations, was probably the most valuable. I was a history major. And the main reason was, I didn’t really have a desire to do straight up economics and I wanted to do no more business and or theory. I kind of, you know, wish Harvard had a business may pick other colleges did. But I pursued history, mainly because at least I’d have a wide range of examples to draw upon. But yeah, those are probably couple classes I’d mentioned. That stuck with me,

Will Bachman  32:33

Roger Fisher is a legend. And I mean, his getting DS book is is foundational for, for anyone, I did not know that he taught that course. Was that at the business school, or was that an undergrad? I didn’t remember

Shergul Arshad  32:44

it was undergrad. He passed away about 10 years ago, actually, almost, almost exactly to the year I remember. When when he passed and yeah, just he definitely legend and he would engage a dinner table, it always engaged people in a debate. And just for fun would typically take the other side just just to show that, you know, he could so like a lawyer, right? You can always take either side.

Will Bachman  33:13

That’s amazing. I had no idea was what department was that? And was it economics or what’s Harman?

Shergul Arshad  33:23

Sure, I think it was, I think it was either an English class a writing class, or might have been a philosophy class. But, you know, You’ve stumped me now, but it definitely, definitely took it as an undergrad. Yeah,

Will Bachman  33:38

what a mess Boy, that that would have been amazing. I had a great negotiation course in business school, but it’s such a foundational, you know, useful skill in all life, not not necessarily for a zero sum negotiation or not just for that, but for enlarging the pie. And it’s, you know, it’s something that should be taught and it’s so hard to learn on your own from a book, you really need to do the, the exercises in a negotiations course to feel it in your gut and really embed those lessons. That’s amazing. Anything else outside of class that happened to you at Harvard, probably, you know, extracurriculars or some person that you met that you know has shaped your life in ways that you might not have expected

Shergul Arshad  34:22

I would say that, you know, the classmates I I really invested heavily on the sort of the social side i was, i co ran the intramural athletics at Quincy house, which was a fun role because aside from getting out there and being super active, you interact with loads of different classmates and people from other years. And I think that that, you know, I was going to take away would be just later on in life to being a social person and having good people skills enables you to Have a large network of people. You know, it’s just so happens that the types of jobs that I’ve done, whether it’s in business development or in sales, you know, though the older you get, the more people you’ve added to the, to the LinkedIn, so to speak, right? People that you know, that are contacts, and there are people and those are skills kind of cultured and developed. And early on, I’d say, at Harvard.

Will Bachman  35:29

And on that topic of people that you get to know if a listener, maybe an old friend, maybe someone who’s hearing you for the first time wanting to reach out to you, or just even find out what you’re doing online. Where would you point them any links you want to share? We can include them in the show notes?

Shergul Arshad  35:46

Oh, sure. Well, I think my Twitter is easiest. It’s just at Shergill. That’s, that’s an easy one to find. certainly encourage people to do that. And email. Since a lot of people are not on Twitter. Shergill underscore are shot@yahoo.com. Pretty easy. It’s pretty consistent. Meanwhile, I’d also say I have the luck of having a really weird first name. So when you Google just my first name, sure, Google. I’m pretty much lucky and cursed, that most of the results are about me. So it’s one of those weird things where you have a first name that pretty much I’ve 52 I’ve never met another one.

Will Bachman  36:37

You could. You could just go without even your last name. You could be one of these one name celebrities. Just your goal. That’s it. Yeah, Pele, Pele, and your goal. What is Donald Rodino? What is that? What’s What’s the story behind your your your first name? How did your parents pick that?

Shergul Arshad  36:56

So my father’s from Pakistan, he actually is a Harvard Business School degree was raised in Boston. My mom’s Italian. Two of them met in the 60s. Who knows what was being passed around the table. But basically, there’s two different names Persian named share, that means line and goal means flour. And there was a classic name Google share. And I guess they just mixed them around. So sure, blue shirt. Sure Google came out of it all. Ironically, like five pages into Google, you find a town somewhere in like Siberia name sure Google, which is really weird, because that was not their intent either. But it’s it’s like I said, it’s a blessing and a curse. Anyone that actually wanted to get in touch with me, is pretty easy to find. I’m also on LinkedIn, I love LinkedIn. I think it’s a great resource for all things. It’s like It’s like being able to peruse resumes of 10,000 people yours you’re so connected with.

Will Bachman  38:05

So that’s the easiest way to find you just Google Shergill sh er G UL and and Shergill will pop up where you go, listeners, listeners, if you liked this show, and you want others to help discover it. And you’re so inclined to write a five star review on iTunes, that would be much appreciated. Also, if you go to 92 report.com. Net nine to report.com. You can sign up for a newsletter and I’ll let you know about the latest episode. should go this was a lot of fun. Thank you for you know, telling me about your journey about sports betting and the advertising days of the internet. And I look forward to hearing about your next venture which is currently under wraps but hopefully be announced soon. Thanks for joining. Thank you